Neither of the two Democrats running for their party’s nomination for the U.S. House seat from the 19th Congressional District is a totally polished politician just yet — though that’s certainly not a prerequisite for the job.

In fact, I remember that a Republican named JOHN SHIMKUS wasn’t exactly the best orator out there when he won the job for which he’s now seeking a seventh two-year term. Shimkus, R-Collinsville, can now express policy positions better, given his experience.

Shimkus won the congressional seat in 1996 when it was open because its former occupant, Democrat DICK DURBIN of Springfield, was making what would turn out to be a successful run for the U.S. Senate.

But because Shimkus has ditched his self-imposed congressional term limit of a dozen years, either JOE McMENAMIN of Springfield or DANIEL DAVIS of Chatham will have to face him as the incumbent in the November election. Also in the November race will be VIC ROBERTS of Taylorville, who is unopposed on the Green Party ballot. He’s a retired coal miner who has become a perennial office-seeker.

McMenamin and Davis faced off this week in an hourlong debate at the University of Illinois at Springfield sponsored by the campus college Democrats, and it gave the 50 folks who braved bad weather to get there an interesting look at contrasting styles.

Davis, 26, speaks loudly and flowingly about how he wants to help people, connect with people, learn about and represent their interests. But specifics, at this point, are more difficult to come by.

“My whole vision for this district is about people,” he said. “Everywhere I’m going I’m telling them they matter.”

Davis brought up the idea of what he said should be a $3,000 or $3,500 “income tax rebate” for college students. When asked about it by reporters afterward, Davis at first said it would be for working students, then said it could be for their parents, and didn’t know the cost.

He said he would support repeal of the Patriot Act because he considers it offensive to civil liberties. Asked if he meant the whole act, Davis said, “I need to sit down and take a closer look at it, but at this time, I believe that a good portion of the Patriot Act could be repealed.”

He talked of using his office to help people find their way to meaningful careers.

“When I’m a congressman, folks can come into my office and say, ‘Gosh, I feel this passion to be a teacher. I feel passion to be a social worker. How can I do that?’ And my office would be an advocate” to help them. He said he’d support a national service program, where people who go into certain teaching or public-sector jobs for at least four years could get loans repaid or other benefits.

Asked after the debate about the whereabouts of his written positions, Davis said, “We’re looking forward to rolling all of that out after the primary.”

Does that mean they haven’t been written?

“We do have some of it,” he said. “My time commitment has been going door-to-door.”

Davis is on leave from a job at the Illinois Department of Public Health.

McMenamin, 55, has something that Shimkus has — a military background. While Shimkus is a West Point graduate, McMenamin is a lawyer and 26-year member of the Illinois Army National Guard who’s served a year in Afghanistan. His service has given him strong feelings about the Iraq war, and while his manner of speech is sometimes halting, he exudes emotion when he talks of what he sees as the United States taking a wrong turn in Iraq.

It was when asked about the Patriot Act — the post-9/11 legislation that has allowed the government to collect more information to find possible terrorists — that McMenamin said he’s surprised how many voters see erosion of civil liberties as a problem, as opposed to say, the economy.

But McMenamin doesn’t mask his feelings.

“Guantanamo is a disgrace,” he said. “Torture is a disgrace. And I can talk about this firsthand.”

He said when in Afghanistan in 2004 and 2005, one of his duties was as a special inspector general who viewed detainee operations.

“The low point of that experience for me was to see … an Army interrogator in civilian clothes tell me that, ‘Well, we take off all their clothes and we play good cops, bad cops.’” He said this was a female soldier, and the detainees are Muslim men.

“I thought, well, the policies emanate from the top of our government, and it’s gone down to the bottom,” McMenamin said.

“Abu Ghraib was a consequence, from my point of view, of our top leadership opening the door to practices and procedures that our country wants to be no part of,” he added. “When I see interrogation methods that talk about clothing deprivation, working dogs, climate control … it’s a disgrace to our country.”

He also thinks the war in Afghanistan was appropriate in the aftermath of 9/11, but the Iraq war saw the United States go “down a reckless path (led) by a trigger-happy president and a yes-man-dominated Congress, including our own Congressman Shimkus.”

A Shimkus spokesman said their camp will wait until after the Democrats have their primary to respond to such talk.

McMenamin said he hopes the next president moves quickly to withdraw combat troops from Iraq.

“It could get bloody in Iraq when we withdraw,” McMenamin acknowledged. “But it got bloody in our Civil War, too, in 1861 through 1865. We cannot keep putting a quarter trillion dollars into Iraq year after year. Meanwhile, Europe is retooled. Meanwhile, China is surging economically. The world is going to pass us by if we continue down that path.”

A question about education did trip up McMenamin a bit. He said during the debate that he thinks American students need to be in school more days each year. Afterward, he lamented to reporters about the lack of continuity in school schedules because there are so many holidays and such things as “teacher union-created days off for the teachers.” But asked if the federal government should pay schools for more days, he said the conversation was “getting off track” because it didn’t match his main issues, including investing in America and energy policy.

“I need to back off,” he said. “That was just responding to a question from the floor.”

The debate, moderated by former State Board of Elections executive director RON MICHAELSON, who is a visiting professor at UIS, was civil, though there was a flash point where Davis, a Harrisburg native, brought up the fact that he lives in the 19th and has for most of his life, while McMenamin doesn’t. Davis recently moved from Springfield to Chatham to be within the boundaries. The law requires a member of Congress to live in the state, but not necessarily in the district.

“He doesn’t know the individuals like I know this district,” Davis said. “They deserve somebody who understands them, who knows them.”

McMenamin asked for rebuttal time for that one.

“Daniel, I’ve lived in Springfield 28 years. That’s longer than you’ve lived your entire life,” McMenamin said. He noted he lived in Shimkus’ district for some years — redistricting after the 2000 Census created new boundaries, and Shimkus went from representing the old 20th to the new 19th.

“I went to Southern Illinois University,” McMenamin added, saying he lives close to the 19th. “And when I jog, I jog in the 19th Congressional District.”

The 19th, which is one of three congressional districts that includes part of Springfield, leans Republican and extends to Pope and Massac counties at the southern edge of the state.

Despite the fact that the candidates got advance notice of some questions — generally a no-no — the UIS campus Democrats did a good service by providing the forum. And those candidates got some practice for what they both hope will be clashes to come with Shimkus.